“I really hate the way you do things.”
Impression
I stand by what I said last week – Hikki is not wrong. But at the same time, now I cannot agree more with Hayato, Yukinon and Yui. I didn’t really mind during the cultural festival, but I don’t like the way he did things this time. I just don’t think it was worth the damage to himself and to his relationships with the people around him.
I don’t think that clique is ‘shallow’. I understand why Hikki says it is for sure – it’s superficial, and conforming to the group and staying ‘in’ is everything. Even so, the way they all individually approached Hikki indicates that they do value their friendships, even if they don’t look like they’re thinking too hard about it. But neither Hayato nor Yumiko were in any position to speak out – they were both talking like they knew what was best for Ebina. And I wasn’t too fond about what Hayato said in particular – that he was interfering because he liked the way things currently were, and didn’t want anything to change. I know this wasn’t too much of a problem because Ebina wasn’t willing to go out with Tobe anyway, but what if she was? Would Hayato still get in the way and justify it on the same grounds? Surely it’s not something he should have any say on, purely because he wants things to stay as they are? As for Yumiko, it was surprisingly perceptive of her to pick up on what was going on, even though she also ended up preaching about what she thought Ebina wanted. I guess it’s a social issue after all. At any rate, Ebina herself implicitly asked for the status quo in her clique to be maintained, and so ultimately that’s the result Hikki would try to procure.
In the end, the confession was very much a formality. All the people who were involved already knew what was going on, and it just needed to be acted out. An acceptance would be impossible on Ebina’s part. A rejection would both crush Tobe and have their clique fall apart from the ensuing awkwardness. So the only way to fulfil prevent both those outcomes was to have someone else initiate the blandest confession possible, with Ebina playing along and replying with the blandest possible rejection – a rejection which also implicitly includes Tobe, but in such an indirect way that he doesn’t suffer any damage. That someone was Hikki. As someone who both has a low social standing and doesn’t give a damn, it’s objectively the best possible outcome to have Hikki commit social suicide yet again and take one for the team. But it’s bruising for him too, you know? During the cultural festival, it was just Hayato and a couple of random girls listening in. This time, it hurt Yukinon. And even more than Yukinon, it hurt Yui. It’s obvious that Yui would react differently – she’s sweet and precious, and that’s why she’s best girl. So even though Hikki didn’t accept it, a fucking apology is the least Hayato could give him. I never want to see Yui cry like that again.
I don’t think it was worth it at all. It might sound really weird out of context, but Hikki is too nice of a person. It’s not like Tobe has ever done anything in particular for him, either. It’s true that no-one did anything for him back at the cultural festival as well, but back then it didn’t involve any backlash from Yukinon and Yui. To keep together a clique he considers as ‘shallow’, he’s hurt both himself and the people around him – including the two girls he’s probably closest to calling actual friends, even though Yukino would never admit it. These girls actually care about him, and he didn’t give a shit. I agree with so many of the things Hikki says, but this is too sacrificial for my liking.
I wonder what this means for Hikki and his relationship with Yui. I can’t help but feel that some of those tears were because he confessed to someone else in front of her, even though she quickly tested the waters and made sure it was fake. Hikki knows that Yui likes him, and he also knows that Yui is a touchy-feely person – that’s just how she is. It was always going to be a long-term thing to get past his defences, but Hikki was giving in – slowly, but he was giving in nonetheless. In this episode he even helped her up and shared food with her and Yukinon. Things were pretty good between the three of them, especially after all that drama over the car accident. But now Hikki has decided to become a fucking martyr. In the aftermath, Ebina talks about the way in which he treats people who don’t matter. What I find really sad is that he thinks of himself as one of those people.
I think hayama interfering because ebina already consulted with him beforehand so if ebina didn’t say anything before i think he would be more than willing to support tobe
Just because they value the clique does not mean the clique isn’t shallow. Here’s why it’s shallow. Remember when Hayama asked the Service Club for help? Hachiman made an observation. Hayama’s group was a group that existed because of Hayama. As far as the members of the group were concerned, Hayama was their friend and the other two were Hayama’s friend. So it’s superficial. Like Ebina’s request meant that she wanted no part of them. So I’m pretty sure to her they’re friends of a friend. Deep friendships can’t be broken with such a simple confession of love. The two people that probably care the most are Hayama and Miura, and Hayama and Miura’s bond is probably the strongest relationship in the clique. Hayama and Miura were both talking based on their experiences with Ebina, and I’m pretty sure they were correct. So it’s not like they were talking out of their ass or anything. I’m pretty sure Hayama was interfering BECAUSE he knew Ebina wasn’t ready to open her heart and it would possibly cause the clique to fall apart. It’s just my opinion, but I think if Ebina was willing to go out with Tobe, then Hayato wouldn’t have gotten in the way. Well, it wasn’t hard to figure out what the Service Club was trying to do.
I agree. It was the best solution unless someone could make Tobe give up but even after the confession he still didn’t want to give up.
It didn’t involve any backlash because they weren’t there to see him hurt himself. That’s actually a big reason why Yukino is upset. He lied to keep something superficial, when Hachiman hates lies and desires something genuine, causing Hachiman to hate himself in a way, and that upset Yukinon because she respected that part of him like he respected her for never lying. I think it’s more he doesn’t realize Yukinon’s and Yui’s feelings. Yukinon doesn’t show she cares that often, because of her personality, and in respect to Yui’s feelings. As for Yui, Hachiman purposefully tries to ignore her obvious advances every chance he gets because he likes his solitude and because ordinary guys take too much meaning from little things, he tries not to read those things at all.
Possibly, but I feel it was really more that he hurt himself. To me she was saying “It hurts me to watch you hurt yourself!” As I stated, Hachiman ignores all of Yui’s advances, so he doesn’t actually know Yui likes him. He knows they’re friends, but he doesn’t actually know she likes him and wants to go out with him. I think that he’s coming to a realization now though.
I get what you mean about the clique – I certainly haven’t forgotten how quick Yumiko was to turn on Yui near the start of the first season for associating with Yukinon. I guess I’m just impressed by how Yumiko ended up having a surprisingly perceptive insight into her own group of friends when all along she’s been portrayed as a character devoted to what’s on the ‘surface’ of things. And for them to all decide to individually ask Hikki for help to maintain their friendships does say something – he’s completely seen through them, takes no shit from them and is their social antithesis. Tobe initially blanched at the thought of asking Hikitani-kun, who was fabulously defended by Yukinon, while Hayato also grimaced at indirectly asking for his help. It was basically admitting that he had yet again lost to suicidal methods which he’s long disapproved of.
As for Hayato… maybe. He seemed awfully self-interested back at the riverside, and is someone who thrives in his social surroundings. But I know he’s supposed to be a good person… I think. I can’t seem to make up my mind on what sort of guy he is – he’s not ‘bad’ in that he’s openly antagonistic or anything, but I think there’s more to him than what his happy exterior portrays, and it starts to reveal itself when he’s alone and away from his clique.
Hikki did react with a suspicious jolt when Yumiko asked him about his relationship with Yui. All throughout the trip, it seemed like Yui was trying to do with Hachiman everything they were helping Tobe out with – and Tobe was after romance. Maybe it’s just because I ship them together, but from my perspective it feels like Hikki knows, but is pointedly ignoring it anyway. I know he treated her entire association with him as being out of guilt or pity when the car accident was still an issue, but I remember Yui trying once more during the cultural festival, which Hikki quickly shut down again. I really need to re-watch the first season.
I don’t see it as too surprising considering she cares about her friends. What’s more surprising to me is the fact that Miura cares so much, well because she’s at the top of the social ladder. Yeah I think the fact that they have to go and ask Hikki means that these friendships aren’t as solid as they’d like to think.
Everyone has a hidden side to them. Remember when Hachiman first met Haruno? “What I found amazing was… How should I put it? That Fortified Armored Shell-like mask of hers. Acting all sociable and always smiling, starting convsersations like a nice girl. Every man’s ideal woman. But ideals are ideals. They aren’t reality. So it feels totally fake.” Personally the reason I don’t feel like Hayama is such a great guy is because Yukino seems somewhat antagonistic towards him. “I don’t recall asking you to brag. You came here because you have a request, Hayama Hayato-kun.”
Well yeah of course Yui was doing everything with Hachiman they were trying to help Tobe with. That’s a given because you know, Yui likes him. But I still say Hachiman doesn’t know.
When Yui came over to Hachiman’s seat to see Mt. Fuji and came really close to him, he thought, “You know, innocent moves like that will give most guys the wrong idea and put them in a position no better than death. If you understand that, never touch a guy, sit in a guy’s chair during breaks or after school, or borrow from a guy if you forget something, ever again.”
When Yui gave him the water to drink that she drank he thought, “I keep telling you…” and “I will worry about it!” when she says he doesn’t have to worry about her having drank it first.
On the walkway with the bamboo trees, Yui said “This is the perfect spot, I think! T-To be asked out.” And Hachiman responds with, “Why the passive voice?”
I think “why the passive voice” pretty much gives away that he doesn’t know how Yui feels. I’m sort of speaking from personal experience here, but I think the best way to put it is that Hachiman is choosing to not know, sort of like closing his eyes to the truth. In my case I would purposefully keep my eyes closed, but in Hachiman’s case it’s figuratively speaking.
Hachiman also looked a bit surprised when Yui snapped at Tobe saying Hachiman wasn’t trusthworthy.
I relate to Hikki a lot generally, and I honestly agree with his choice. It was the best option, and no one really got hurt. I doubt even he really got hurt though, since Ebina would have said no to anyone, not just him. Since I’m on Hikki’s side on this, I don’t really understand why Yukinon and Yui are so upset. I kind of get it, that they think he hurt himself even more, but I don’t think he really did. I don’t think he cares, or at least I wouldn’t. The entire confession scene was pretty transparent anyway. I was actually upset that Yukinon and Yui got angry with Hikki (even if they were angry for his sake)!
By the way, what does “Heavily Rotating” mean?
Remember what Hiratsuka-sensei told him.
Hiratsuka: “Choosing the slogan, finding Sagami… In terms of results, you played a big part. However, I can’t find it in me to praise you for it. Hikigaya, saving someone isn’t an excuse to hurt yourself.”
Hikigaya: “Oh, I’m not hurting myself.”
Hiratsuka: “Even if you’re used to the pain. You should realize that there are people whose hearts break each time they see you hurt yourself.”
It’s not that he doesn’t feel pain. He’s used to it and he’s pretending he doesn’t feel the pain. There’s a big difference between not actually feeling anything and pretending to not feel anything. It’s sort of like if you’re sleep deprived all the time you don’t notice that you’re sleep deprived, but the physical effects (reaction time, body temperature) are still there.
Yukinon and Yui know that he’s hurting himself. They know him well enough to know that he’s pretending like he’s not hurt at all. (I’m actually a lot like Hikigaya. I act like I’m not hurt and mad when I am. And to be honest if I saw a friend acting that way hurting themselves but pretending to not care I’d be angry too.) As I stated, what makes Yukinon really upset is the fact that he betrayed his beliefs; in other words, he hurt himself in order to protect something shallow and superficial. It’d be one thing if it was to protect something genuine that he cares about, but it was to protect a stupid clique. I don’t want to spoil the light novel too much but in Volume 8 Chapter 2, Yukinoshita states how both of them were supposed to hate superficiality.
My memories of the first season are fuzzy, but I remember him talking about his past experiences in middle school with asking a girl out, only to be rejected. It somehow became public and was the topic of gossip amongst all the girls, who mocked poor Hikki. I’m fairly sure it was one of the many encounters that led him to develop his ‘I hate nice girls’ ideology. It’s true that both Hikki and Ebina knew it was the fakest thing ever, and so it might not have looked like it hurt him, but the very action of asking someone out must have brought up some very unpleasant memories for him. I think Hikki does implicitly say he got hurt at the very end, when he goes: “The biggest liar of all was me.” To me, the lie was that no-one got hurt as a result of his sacrifice, which is what he told Yui to try to placate her. In reality, he got hurt. And retrospectively, so did Yukinon and Yui.
Oh, and that’s in reference to Heavy Rotation, which was a new single from AKB48 at the time. They’re a J-pop group who took a few steps into the anime sphere a couple of years ago with an ‘original’ anime AKB0048. Maybe I should change it…
I basically agree with absolutely everything you said Vantage. I actually strongly disagree with Hikki’s decision. I love the gut, but I admit, I hate the way he does things. Sure, maybe everything is A-Okay in the end, but the process is basically a very minor form of, self-harm almost (not quite obviously, but you get what I mean). I just don’t like how willing he is to commit social suicide, because although he does do it for a very nice and selfless reason, he does always end up harming himself and the people close to him, because when someone you really care about does something to harm themselves or gets hurt, you get hurt to. I’m okay with or can live with most of his solutions though, but not this one.
The thing is, what did Hikki’s confession change? Nothing. Well, that was the point. But I mean, even if Hikki had done nothing, the result would not have changed. Ebina knew that Tobe was trying to confess to her, and she rejected both Hikki and Tobe, although Tobe never got the chance to confess. But if Tobe did confess, the answer would have remained the same, “I’m not ready for a relationship yet.” Which is perfectly acceptable, they’re only in high school. It’s not like everyone didn’t already know Tobe liked her, because it was so obvious, and Hayama would have still lied to Tobe and said, “Don’t worry, she said yet, so don’t take it personally,” or something along those lines. So what I don’t understand is literally, what would have changed. What, so know instead of it being awkward between Ebina and Tobe and them pretending it never happened, it would be awkward for Ebina and Tobe and they would accept that it happened. Is there clique really that shallow that it would fall apart with one little confession that everyone would forget about in a month or two anyways? I believe that there clique is extremely superficial and fragile, but I don’t think it would fall apart that easily, I don’t know. Maybe I’m giving them too much credit. I fully understand trying to keep a group together even if it’s bad or superficial or you’re just grasping at straws because you don’t want to lose it. Because what would you do without the clique, I mean there goes your social status, and I’m sure some of those clique members care about that. Or more like, it’s better to have shallow friends than no friends. No but really, people just don’t want to lose things because losing things is truly painful, be a friendship, relationship, pet, project, house, money, parent, sibling, etc. But still, it was really rude to put it on Hikki and go “I don’t want things to change, so can you figure something out?” I know that’s what their club does, but you don’t really ask people favors like that, regardless of the situation.
But mainly, I cannot stand that it made Yui cry, because Yui is the best girl and the queen♚, seriously. How dare he make Yui cry like that. Not cool. I believe that someone mentioned how they didn’t understand why Yukinon and Yui were upset. (I think that a commenter [Yithar] already justified enough for Yukinon, but I’m going to add on for why Yui was upset.) Sure, maybe half of it was because she didn’t like how Hikki was willing to hurt himself. But I honestly believe that most of it was because she likes him. I mean, how would it feel if the guy you liked wouldn’t even touch the cup from the water you drank or the food you took a tiny bite out of, and totally disregards all your advances, but but he would willingly confess (although it was fake) to a girl he barely knew in front of like ten people, including you? I understand that Yui is a very touchy-feely person and Hikki is simply not. I get the opposite gender thing and the “indiect kiss” thing or whatever, that’s completely fine. But I mean, that must have hurt Yui so much, I mean it did. Just the fact that a guy you liked would confess to someone in front of you is enough. Maybe I’m biased because I ship Yui and Hikki together so much and I love Yui, but that’s how I feel.
S̶o̶r̶r̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶w̶e̶e̶k̶ ̶a̶f̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶e̶p̶i̶s̶o̶d̶e̶ ̶a̶i̶r̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶’̶t̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶t̶c̶h̶ ̶i̶t̶.̶ ̶A̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶s̶o̶r̶r̶y̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶r̶a̶n̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶s̶p̶i̶t̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶l̶i̶n̶g̶s in̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶X̶D̶.̶
Personally I feel Hikki could’ve just asked Ebina how she felt about dating in front of Tobe but in the light novel he said he needed to do something that would shock Tobe.
Considering how superficial the clique is, it’s certainly a possibility. I really think you’re giving them too much credit. Hayama and Miura are the ones who keep the group together and the conversation flowing. Also, don’t underestimate awkwardness. It can cause people to just not want to stick around.
What you’re saying is very possibly the truth. It’s hard to say though because we don’t see Yui’s thoughts.